The True Self

[Sophus]

I've been asking myself this more and more: what does it mean to be your "true self"?

You hear it a lot that people never (or rarely) show "who they really are" in public. Then you have Nolan's Joker's view on it, "in... you see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know your friends better than you ever did." I do think a lot of people are, for lack of a better term, sleep walking through their life. Maybe when you're thrust into a sudden scary situation where your life is looking as though it's going to end, one starts to wake up (not to sound like the Jigsaw Killer or anything ) because you start to appreciate the full, mortal value of your life; how it's too short to not be who you are.

It also seems a hermit who lives only in nature is completely free to be him or herself. We may be the only animals with this sort of identity problem because we are the only animals with opinions.

[Tank]

The Japanese say it very well.

One has three hearts (or faces). One you show the world, one you show your lover and one you reveal to none but yourself.

So which is the true heart, the true self?

The first heart is the one you show to the world it is probably that 'self' that you wish to be seen as.

The second heart is the one you show to your lover, it is the bonded heart, the loyal vulnerable heart, the one that is gifted only to that one special person who is all to you. The one you offer as tremulous sacrifice to the person who could hurt you most.

The third heart is the tumultuous heart, the raging heart, the one that would kill without thought or reason, the passion driven monster, the quiet heart, the poet, the shy child inside, the damaged heart that hurts with memories only you can face in the darkest most terrifying moments of hatred, fear and self loathing, it is the nightmare cellar, the bright centre of joy where you rejoice in good fortune. This is the heart that the world can never see, the foundation. To be true to this heart could be your damnation or your salvation.

Life moulds these three hearts with ideas and experiences, at any given moment one will rule, but the true self is buried deep, deep inside the third heart.

At least that's what some people think.

[wildfire_emissary]

I heard this from (of all the films) The Mask. Jim Carrey was watching a talk show on TV where a Dr. Phil-like character said "We all wear masks, metaphorically speaking." He went on to say that an individual's behavior differ depending on every person the individual is in contact with. We have a mask for our friends, a mask for our wives, a mask for our co-workers etc. Each mask is a different behavior. Now which mask is the true self? I don't know maybe the collection of these masks is the true self. Which begs the question, is there a fake or false self?

Sophus wrote:
Maybe when you're thrust into a sudden scary situation where your life is looking as though it's going to end, one starts to wake up (not to sound like the Jigsaw Killer or anything  ) because you start to appreciate the full, mortal value of your life; how it's too short to not be who you are.

I agree. So did Uncle Walt.

Walt Whitman wrote: O me! O life!... of the questions of these recurring;
Of the endless trains of the faithless--of cities fill'd with the foolish;
Of myself forever reproaching myself, (for who more foolish than I, and who more faithless?)
Of eyes that vainly crave the light--of the objects mean--of the struggle ever renew'd;
Of the poor results of all--of the plodding and sordid crowds I see around me;
Of the empty and useless years of the rest--with the rest me intertwined;
The question, O me! so sad, recurring--What good amid these, O me, O life?

Answer.

That you are here--that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.

[The Magic Pudding]

I've been asking myself this more and more: what does it mean to be your "true self"?
You hear it a lot that people never (or rarely) show "who they really are" in public.

People may show a different aspect of the self depending on the audience, this could be seen as diplomacy.
I'm reminded Velocraptor showed some of herself recently and lost her job.

Then you have Nolan's Joker's view on it, "in... you see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know your friends better than you ever did."

Sorry if I'm I've missed the point, but I don't think it is fair to judge someone entirely by what they reveal when their life is threatened.  
I like the judge a person by how they treat their subordinates thing.
How does a person act when no one is watching, when there will be no reward or loss.

I do think a lot of people are, for lack of a better term, sleep walking through their life. Maybe when you're thrust into a sudden scary situation where your life is looking as though it's going to end, one starts to wake up (not to sound like the Jigsaw Killer or anything ) because you start to appreciate the full, mortal value of your life; how it's too short to not be who you are.

If you're not challenged you can go into an auto pilot mode.  
Some physical challenges are a good thing, a walk, some white water, but I prefer not to put my spine at too much risk.
Mental challenges are probably more important, if they don't come in your work there are books and forums.

It also seems a hermit who lives only in nature is completely free to be him or herself.

I'm reminded of the wealthy nobles in Don Quixote pretending to be shepherds.
The hermit business may be all right for a while, but it’s probably as likely to lead to madness as insight.

We may be the only animals with this sort of identity problem because we are the only animals with opinions.

Octopuses have the same problem and can't to bear to live more than ten years.

Yes, I made that up.

[penfold]

I've always thought that the true self is a particularly cruel cosmic joke.

From day to day we seem to intuit that we have a true self. This idea gives us a sense of continuity of our perceptions. However when we really try and grasp the true self it always seems to slip through our fingers.

Philosophy does not really help us. Hume's sceptical critique on the rational coherency of the self is pretty devastating (see A Treatise of Human Nature-1-4-6: http://www.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/web%20publishing/TreatiseI.iv.vi.htm). The traditional Kantian response of defining the self as an 'a priori synthetic truth' does not help much either (it's basically saying we have a sense of self just because we do...)

Psychology also throws up a large problem. Since Freud we have become aware that the vast majority of our internal processing occurs at a subconscious level. Think how emotions arise, or how something like a smell can trigger an intense memory, without any conscious choice. So even if we accept that there is a 'true self' we have to concede that the bulk of it is hidden out of sight in the subconscious.

Finally we have neurology where physical causes can lead to excesses (eg Tourettes), deficits (eg amnesia), even sudden radical personality change (http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/bfrontal.shtml). What neurologists have found is that physical causes will inevitably change the 'true self'. In the opening chapter of his remarkable book The Man Who Mistook his wife for a Hat the neurologist Oliver Sacks writes:

...disorders may be of many kinds - and may arise from excesses, no less than impairments of function ... But it must be said from the outset that a disease is never a mere loss or excess - there is always a reaction, on the part of the affected organism or individual, to restore, to replace, to compensate for and to preserve its identity; however strange the means may be...

So as well as being philosophically tricky, and mostly hidden in the subconsicous we also have to allow that our 'true self' can be radically altered by physcial causes. [And not only through trauma and disease, think of the profound assault on the self that occurs when taking a drug like LSD]

So maybe there is a true self; I intuitively think there is; but I dispair of ever finding it.

[notself]

Self only exists in relation to our bodies, thoughts, sensations, feelings and actions.  These five things together produce the feeling of self.  As these things change, the self changes. Self is a construct from these things that enables us to deal with the world.  Since our bodies, thoughts, sensations, feelings and actions are always changing, so does our "self" change.  To say there is a "true self" is impossible since the attributes that give rise to a sense of self are always changing.

I am not the same person (self) that I was at the age of eight.  I will be a different person (self) at the age of 88.  Which will have been or will be my true self?

[Sophus]

Thanks for the interesting thoughts everyone!

Self only exists in relation to our bodies, thoughts, sensations, feelings and actions. These five things together produce the feeling of self. As these things change, the self changes. Self is a construct from these things that enables us to deal with the world. Since our bodies, thoughts, sensations, feelings and actions are always changing, so does our "self" change. To say there is a "true self" is impossible since the attributes that give rise to a sense of self are always changing.

I am not the same person (self) that I was at the age of eight. I will be a different person (self) at the age of 88. Which will have been or will be my true self?

I really like this explanation and it clears up a lot for me. At the same time I can't help but think that even our ever changing personality is a simply a visage put on for those around us, although some people are more earnest and transparent than others.

Penfold that was a very interesting response! Perhaps our true self does lie in the subconscious. It seems to know more about how I feel than the conscious self, then again I suppose it is responsible for how we all feel. Unless of course you're Sartre whom thinks the subconscious is the product of self deception.

The hermit business may be all right for a while, but it’s probably as likely to lead to madness as insight.

For some people I'm sure it would be. I have Asperger's though so I'm very comfortable with self regulation. In fact I need at least a certain amount of alone time less I go insane. If it weren't for the family I would probably be a hermit of sorts.

Which begs the question, is there a fake or false self?

Does Bunburing count?  

The Japanese say it very well.

One has three hearts (or faces). One you show the world, one you show your lover and one you reveal to none but yourself.

Tank, this is really neat. I'd like to read up on it. Tried Googling Japanese hearts and faces but didn't turn up any results though.

[notself]

What you call personality (self) is just a set of social behaviors.  Personality (behavior) is not self but a stimulus/response activity based on socialization and the other five aspects of being: body, sensation, feeling, thoughts and action.

Aspergers may actually make you more aware of the fact that self is a construct.

[Tank]

Tank, this is really neat. I'd like to read up on it. Tried Googling Japanese hearts and faces but didn't turn up any results though.

I heard it so long ago I can't remember who told me.
Here are some links on the subject, but they don't always attribute the same thing to the same heart!
http://www.odemagazine.com/exchange/154 ... panese_man

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xJxf ... 22&f=false
From the link above



http://www.ciao.co.uk/Shogun_James_Clav ... ew_5638055
From the link above.

The tremendous characterisation of Toranaga lends much to the novel. They say that all men have three hearts, A false heart in his mouth for all the world to see, a second in his breast for his special friends and family and his real one, his true one which is known to him alone. Toranaga embodies this and his ability to survive against odds through patience and deep planning is wonderful to read.

It appears to be an old Japanese proverb and I have read Shogun so I could well have picked it up from there  

[Kylyssa]

I think that so many people live their lives on autopilot that that may not even have a "true self", whatever the f a "true self" may be.

I keep several selves on a shelf by the apartment door.  I choose the one I want depending on who I'm expected to be that day.

I think that, being autistic, I am more aware of all my faces because they take some effort to maintain.

[deekayfry]

If one is keen enough to watch someone's body movements and facial expressions, you will see flashes of their true self.  In my experience, people who are bullies flash angry looks, even when they are smiling and speaking pleasantly.

Bull shitters have their own set of universal faces, too.

[notself]

Is the true self capable of change?

[Tank]

Is the true self capable of change?

Maybe 'built upon' would be a slightly more insightful term in that I still feel I am the same self as when I became aware of 'me' at about 5, but I've just had loads of stuff hung onto me since then, but the 5yo me is still under there, somewhere. But does that make me as a 'whole' different or changed? Don't know I'll take the dogs for a walk, smoke a cigar and think about it!

[notself]

Is the true self capable of change?

Maybe 'built upon' would be a slightly more insightful term in that I still feel I am the same self as when I became aware of 'me' at about 5, but I've just had loads of stuff hung onto me since then, but the 5yo me is still under there, somewhere. But does that make me as a 'whole' different or changed? Don't know I'll take the dogs for a walk, smoke a cigar and think about it!

The self is the same; is different; is both the same and different; is neither the same or different.  I believe it to be a construct of the mind/body. This construct becomes richer and more detailed as we age.  I don't see us having an independent, unchanging self or soul.

[Sophus]

Thanks Tank!

Is the true self capable of change?

I would say, "not by volition."

If one is keen enough to watch someone's body movements and facial expressions, you will see flashes of their true self. In my experience, people who are bullies flash angry looks, even when they are smiling and speaking pleasantly.

Bull shitters have their own set of universal faces, too.

I'm a horrible lie detector, but I've been learning how to detect a fake smile.    

I think that so many people live their lives on autopilot that that may not even have a "true self", whatever the f a "true self" may be.

I keep several selves on a shelf by the apartment door. I choose the one I want depending on who I'm expected to be that day.

I think that, being autistic, I am more aware of all my faces because they take some effort to maintain.

I feel this way too often. It kind of annoys me because I want to just be me. There's only certain people whom I can be around and this is still possible.